To listen to the interview, use the player above, and read the transcript below.
[MUSIC: Debussy – Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun]
Brian McCreath I'm Brian McCreath, and this is the Boston Symphony Orchestra and Principal Flutist Lorna McGhee.
Claude Debussy’s Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun begins with this major solo for the flute, and this performance of the piece took place at Tanglewood in 2025. Lorna McGhee came to the BSO the previous September after several years as the Principal Flutist of the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra. And she filled a position that’s central to the sound and character of the Boston Symphony. During Lorna’s first season at Tanglewood, the summer home of the BSO, I talked with her and began by asking what led to her decision to apply for this orchestra’s Principal Flute position.
Lorna McGhee Well, I do love the Pittsburgh Symphony, and I was happy there. This job became available in Boston. I never expected it would become open during my playing career. And lo and behold it did. And I thought maybe I have one more move in me. And I thought I'll give it a shot. You know, I was sort of at peace with, I'd be very happy staying in Pittsburgh. But, you know, Boston is such a historical arts institution and a bigger city and, you know, just the artistic scope was something that I was very interested in. You know when you live in a bigger city, you can afford to take more artistic risks. For example, I would see the Boston program for the year, and things like doing Lady Macbeth of Mtensk or the beautiful Korngold opera that we did last year and so that was really appealing to me, aside from that it's just a great orchestra. So I put my name in the hat and here I am.
Brian McCreath Well, talk about putting your name in the hat because that's not just an easy process. There's a huge audition process that happens for basically any player that comes to any orchestra. It involves rounds of probably sending in tapes. I don't know if that was the case for you, but you have to get passed through these different rounds of evaluation that eventually become live. You have to come to the orchestra, in this case to Symphony Hall, and play on the stage, live, all by yourself sitting on the stage of Symphony Hall. What was that experience like for you?
Lorna McGhee Well, it is quite a process. So I can speak a little bit about the actual logistical process of it. But also there is the internal process. Like, the mental process you go through is huge. I mean, I thought for about a month before I decided to put my name in the hat, just really spending time with the decision. I knew if I was going to do this audition, I would do it absolutely wholeheartedly. So I wanted to be very sure. And of course there are also negative consequences of success, too. So you have to kind of just sift through all of that. My husband has a wonderful job in Pittsburgh at Carnegie Mellon, he's the viola professor there, professor of viola and chamber music. So it was something as a couple we had to discuss, that this would mean, if it worked out, it would mean being apart some of the time as he's staying in his job in Pittsburgh, for now anyway. So there's a lot of things that you have to sift through mentally.
And also, when you take an audition later in life, not when you're in your 20s, it's a different ball game. In a way it's a little bit more vulnerable. Well actually, not a little, quite a lot more vulnerable it feels like. [laughs] So you have to sort of sift through that as well. You're going to be competing against people you've taught, for example, and it feels precarious. So there's a lot of mental work you have to do just to be at peace with all of that. Whatever happens, you can just be at peace with it all.
Brian McCreath Let's just paint that scene a little bit more, though, because you're right. When you go to an orchestra audition - and I'm speaking from my experience too, as a former trumpet player - most of the people in audition rooms where you're warming up and getting ready to go out one by one, they're in their 20s or maybe early 30s, even for big jobs like the BSO. And to use your words, if you're later in your career, you're not in that cohort anymore. And yes, I'm sure there are students of yours who are making the audition rounds now, so it must be...
Lorna McGhee Of course, and you want them to do well. [laughs] Well, anyway, it is what it is, and in a way you have to train your mind. It's really stressful to take auditions. You have to sort of train like an athlete actually. All these wonderful sports teams have great sports psychologists, tennis players at Wimbledon, they have their coach and their performance psychologist helping them. And so, you have to kind of equip yourself. I did a lot of reading and research about things, and then you have to really have the right motives for taking the audition. And for me, it was just, I just want to be an artist. I can be an artist in Pittsburgh Symphony. It's a wonderful orchestra, too. But just having that as your principal reason and your principal focus in the audition, because of course, when you know you're being scrutinized and you know you're been judged, it's very easy to get very self-conscious. And you yourself, you can rake yourself over the coals for every single note that you may have played slightly out of tune. And then the walls start closing in and you stop communicating as a performer. So there's a lot of mental work to just stay open and open-hearted and generous in your playing and just actually being able to play your best under those really difficult circumstances. It's difficult for everybody. I mean, nobody finds it easy. You're in the practice room waiting to go on stage, and your mind is just saying, "Get me out of here." [laughs] So you need to have all sorts of anchors to keep you centered and to keep you focused on actually the task at hand, which is to create music, to be expressive, to offer what you can offer to the best of your ability.
And you were also asking about the actual process. Fortunately, because I was in a job like Pittsburgh Symphony before, a seasoned player, I was invited directly to the final round, which was very nice. So I didn't have to do the cattle call, which I was grateful for. But of course there were nine of us in the first round of the finals, and that was still behind a screen. So I'm really glad about that because, even though I was invited directly to the finals, like you still earned your place in the superfinals when the screen came down. And there were three of us left in the superfinals.
Brian McCreath And to paint the scene a little bit further, when you say the screen, you mean you're on stage at Symphony Hall and the screen is actually not right in front of you, it's right in front of the committee listening.
Lorna McGhee Yes, you can't see who you're playing for.
Brian McCreath Exactly.
Lorna McGhee So it's anonymous.
Brian McCreath The committee of players, it's musicians from the orchestra who are listening.
Lorna McGhee Yes, and the conductor. This is to protect everybody and to prevent discrimination or favoritism, and so it's wonderful that that's part of the process. For me, I find it really difficult to play behind a screen because it makes you so painfully aware that you're being judged. It's not like a normal performing experience where everything is about communication and you can see who you're connecting with. And so I find it quite difficult to handle that. So that was something that I had to mentor myself over as well.
Brian McCreath And even what you're playing is odd in a way, because you're playing parts of orchestral pieces without the rest of the orchestra. It's not the same way of communicating as you would be if you're playing - I mean, to pull something out from the middle of thin air, if it's a solo from [Rimsky-Korsakov's] Scheherazade, it's just got to be you, and you wouldn't play it the same way as you would if you were sitting in an orchestra with everybody around you, or would you? I don't know.
Lorna McGhee Well, in your mind's ear you have to be imagining the rest of the orchestra with you.
Brian McCreath Yes.
Lorna McGhee And then sort of join that moving train that's already set in motion in your mind's ear. In the audition, you usually have to play, for wind instruments, you have usually to play some Mozart concerto, maybe just the exposition of the first movement or of the slow movement. And I think we had to do some of the Ibert concerto, if I remember correctly, maybe the slow movement. So that is really lovely to have the opportunity to just play. And then of course you have to just play excerpts, one after another. You get a big list of maybe about 20 excerpts, perhaps more. And these are just short, maybe 30 bar extracts, big solos from the orchestral repertoire. You don't know in advance what they're going to choose. They'll choose a selection. So you just go on stage there for your audition and the proctor will just put one of them on your stand. "Okay, go play that." "Next one." They just put it on your stand. So there's a sort of mental toughness you need for that just to stay present with all the unpredictable things. It's so unpredictable compared to a concert or a recital where you're so much more in control of your environment. So a lot of this is about keeping your nervous system quiet enough. You still feel like a deer in the headlights. [laughs] There's no getting away from that.
Anyway, I was so happy to make it through to the superfinals. I remember calling my husband David after the first round of the finals, just saying don't get your hopes up. I don't think it went very well. That deer in the headlights, even with all this training, you still feel like your nervous system goes through the ringer, and you probably don't play as well as you could have played. Anyway. It worked out to go through into the superfinals, and then I was just so happy. I thought, I haven't disgraced myself. And I'm just going to enjoy this. And that part was really enjoyable because we had to play the first movement of the Nielsen quintet with all the principal wind players. And you know, I know that piece inside out. I just enjoyed that. I mean, that's what I do. I know how to do that. And it was just wonderful to play with all of them. And there's no rehearsal, you just sit down and you react to each other, you find the pitch. That was wonderful. And then some of the excerpts, Andris Nelsons would conduct, and one of them, Carmen, the Bizet Carmen, which has a lovely duet part with the clarinet. I played that with [BSO Principal Clarinetist] Bill Hudgens and with Andris conducting, and I'll actually never forget that because that was really enjoyable. And also playing in that beautiful hall. I just felt like whatever happens, I'm just going to enjoy this. Then, it worked out. We were waiting in the musician's lounge, waiting to hear the result of the audition. I was with the two other guys there, who were great. We heard at about 20 to midnight, you know, 11:40 at night. And I just remember being completely elated. That night it was torrential rain. It was an absolute downpour. And I just remember walking through these deserted streets of Boston, walking back to my hotel, just floating on cloud nine, you know, completely drenched through to the skin. It was wonderful.
Brian McCreath Lorna McGhee’s path to the Boston Symphony began far away, in the Scottish coastal town of Largs.
Lorna McGhee It's a small town in Ayrshire, North Ayrshire, which is in southwest Scotland. And I grew up right on the coast. Largs is right on the coast, and in the Victorian era, it was a seaside town. Before that it was fishing town. So it has lovely old buildings right on the shore. There's a wonderful, famous ice cream parlor there, Nardini's. [laughs] It's a small town. There's only one high school. There are beautiful islands, so you look out onto many, many islands, and one of these islands is Arran, which is mountainous. The mountains come down quite far south, down the west coast of Scotland. Not so much on the east, but on the west. And so Arran is the lowest point, the most southerly point that is mountainous. So that's what we look out on. It's an absolutely beautiful, beautiful, idyllic place. That's where I grew up and went to school. My dad loved sailing, so he would teach us how to sail, and we would sail around the islands. I loved horses, so I would go and help out at the local riding stables every weekend in return for rides. I'd just help out with grooming and mucking out and cleaning the tack. I was horse-mad, we would go hiking in the hills. I had a beautiful kind of outdoors childhood, which was great. My dad was a history teacher, an English teacher, and my mom was a stay-at-home mom. But he loved poetry, so we would go out hiking, and something would remind him of a beautiful Wordsworth poem or a Keats poem. And even though they weren't musicians, there was this sort of appreciation and sensitivity and storytelling and love of nature. I feel like all of that helped my music making. I started flute when I was eight years old, just with a local, I guess in the States you'd call it band teacher, peripatetic woodwind teacher, who just taught all the woodwind instruments.
Brian McCreath Because that's what was done in school at the time. You just picked up the flute because that's... Everybody was going to join the band...
Lorna McGhee No, we didn't really have band there, but there was a woodwind teacher, Mr. Drummond, who was a clarinetist. And he started us off. Actually I started myself off, because I have an older sister who plays the violin, and when she was starting, my parents said, "Lorna, would you like to follow in your sister's footsteps?" Of course, the violin is really quite painful to listen to when somebody's learning. [laughs] And I had heard James Galway. I mean she turned out to be a great violinist, I don't mean to disparage her, but it was quite painful for those first few years. Then I'd heard James Galway on the television. I thought this is a marvelous sound. It was so full of life. And I said to my parents, no, can I try the flute instead? And they rented a flute for me on hire purchase so we could send it back if I didn't take to it. I had Two-In-a-Day Book 1 and my little rented flute. And I taught myself over the summer. So then when I started... I don't know why, I must have really loved it. It took me about a week to get a sound out of it. And then I was already playing little melodies when I had my first lessons with Mr. Drummond. And then the teacher after that was Miss Cooper, who was an oboist, and she said, "I think you should try for the junior department of the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama." So, I auditioned when I was 11 and much to my horror, I got a place, which meant that I had to give up my Saturdays at the riding school.
Brian McCreath Because that would be in Glasgow?
Lorna McGhee It was in Glasgow, so I had to give up my Saturdays.
Brian McCreath Yeah. How long of a drive is that, to get from Largs to Glasgow?
Lorna McGhee Well, it's about an hour away, so very quickly everything changed because I met David Nicholson who was the most brilliant, brilliant flute teacher. He had studied with Geoffrey Gilbert, who taught James Galway and taught the great flute players like William Bennett. And he'd also studied with Jean-Pierre Rampal. So David was principal flute of the Scottish Chamber Orchestra, and I just lived for my Saturdays, from about the age of 11 and a half. [laughs] And I couldn't wait to go to the music school. And he really instilled in me a love of music and a love of the flute. I mean, he was great at putting you together technically, but also, the most important thing was you had to be saying something with the music. Just to bring it back to the audition here for Boston, I knew it would be the last audition I ever took, and I wanted it to be a soulful thing, not a career thing. If it was the right thing, it would work out. If it wasn't, fine. And I took one of my anchors, one of the soulful things that I took with me to that audition was a little photo of David Nicholson because he really gave me that love for playing and specifically that love for the flute and what it could do and the sense of aliveness that it gave me and listening to him gave me. So that's a nice little connection with the audition here and just carrying that legacy forward. My parents would take me to hear the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. I would hear nothing else except the beautiful silvery sound of David Nicholson. My ear was just glued to that and so I studied with him for six years and then went to London to study.
Brian McCreath Were there particular pieces in that time that you were learning the repertoire? I mean, this is always when people's eyes are opening up their ears or taking in pieces they'd never heard before, even the most standard orchestral repertoire or solos or chamber music. Were there are particular ones that you remember just getting caught by, you couldn't get it out of your mind?
Lorna McGhee Well, basically every time he picked up the flute. [laughs]
Brian McCreath [laughs]
Lorna McGhee That was pretty inspiring. But at that age, you sort of start doing youth orchestra. I do remember a specific piece, Dvořák's Seventh Symphony, which is just gorgeous.
[MUSIC: Dvořák - Symphony No. 7]
And all the Dvořák orchestral works have beautiful wind parts, the first part, second part, were equally as interesting and beautiful. I remember playing second flute in Strathclyde School Symphony Orchestra when I was 12 years old. Having this light bulb moment that this is exactly what I want to do. That's my life. So that stayed with me always.
Brian McCreath From those early days of driving to Glasgow on Saturdays, Lorna went on to study at the Royal Academy of Music in London. And when it came time for her to begin taking auditions to launch her career, that process was rather different from the American audition process she described earlier.
Lorna McGhee My first job was with the BBC Symphony Orchestra, and in Britain there's not so much pressure on the panel, on the jury to select one winner at the auditions. So they will select maybe several people that they feel have nice qualities that could be a good fit, and then they try them out in the orchestra for a week or two. And then they cycle them in and out. It's a little bit like "Survivor." [laughs] They sort of whittle it down until they're left with the person that they feel is the best fit. So on both sides, it's not such a pressure cooker. And certainly in America, it's much more of a pressure cooker because there's pressure on both sides. You have to actually win the audition or they have to choose somebody there and then. Of course, there's a probation year, there's the tenure process, but in general. They don't do trials. So for example, when I got my job in Britain, at the BBC, there were 13 of us to begin with that they took on trial. And then it took them two years to decide.
Brian McCreath I was going to say, it sounds time-consuming.
Lorna McGhee It is time-consuming and a lengthy process, and you end up sort of sitting next to your phone. Are they going to call me back? And so for two years, you're sort of on tenterhooks, really, and go and play multiple times. And then, finally, you are the last man standing, last woman standing. And it's such a relief. Then there's no tenure process. In a way, because they've heard you so many times, then they can be sure to make the decision. That's a different approach, and I think it encourages perhaps a more generous way of playing in auditions which is not so anxious.
Brian McCreath What was it then that brought you to the United States?
Lorna McGhee Love.
Brian McCreath Okay, good. I love that. That's wonderful.
Lorna McGhee So I met my husband, David, at a chamber music festival in Scotland. David is Canadian, but he was playing in a chamber group, in a wonderful string quartet, the Chester Quartet. They were based in Indiana. They had a residency at Indiana University. So we met at this chamber music festival. We got engaged within a month. We got married a year later and were looking for work in each other's countries. So, David played for a little bit with a British quartet, the Vellinger Quartet, and I looked for work in North America. My first job in the States was... I was far too young for that job really, but it was teaching at the University of Michigan. That was my first job. I had a year's position there. And then we moved to Vancouver. David was headhunted for a professorship at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. So we moved there. We had a wonderful time there for 12 years and then both got jobs in Pittsburgh. I got a job with Pittsburgh Symphony and David got a job at Carnegie Mellon University and then, now here we are.
Brian McCreath Through the course of those moves, from Michigan to Vancouver, on to Pittsburgh, and now Boston, one critical part of Lorna’s musicianship has been Alexander Technique, which, as she told me, is a way of developing awareness about how you use the body in any particular activity – music or otherwise – and how the habits you form can make that activity more effective or, on the contrary, more difficult.
Lorna McGhee So, Alexander was a Shakespearean actor who found that due to the pressure of performance would sometimes lose his voice. That was just a habitual response to the stimulus of performing, where he would force his voice or throw his head back. And so it inspired this very, very in-depth period of time where he was observing how he was responding to stimulus. And when you look at children, when you look at toddlers, they're so flexible. Their head is so beautifully poised. This is probably more of an answer than you wanted. [laughs] I could go on all day about Alexander Technique, but I'll tell you how I became interested in it. When I was a student, as I mentioned to you before, my teacher said, look, this is a really tough profession. There's not many job opportunities, and it may not work out the way you want it to. So I was practicing like a demon, six hours a day. Perhaps not the most intelligent practice, practicing with anxiety, actually, and grasping. And so my left hand would go numb. It would go completely numb. And so, for first-year students at the Royal Academy, they offered one-on-one Alexander lessons for their worst cases. [laughs] Very quickly, having a few lessons with this wonderful teacher, Ilana Machover in London, my problem with the hand was working normally again. But more than that, it opened up my sound because she was helping me see where I was just using way too much muscular effort for what I was doing. And so from that stage on in my training, my Alexander lessons really helped me refine the use of self - I'll just put it like that - so that it was always constructive. And it really taught me how to practice properly, actually. Not many people teach you how to practice properly. You kind of, if poise is the right effort in the right time, at the right place. When I was a student, my first year, it was just random effort all the time, all over the place. And that's when you get in trouble. And it doesn't lead to very good results, frankly. So this helps you streamline your practice, your effort, so you get the most conducive results. And it's wonderful because then you really treat the body like the instrument.
When you think of our great singers, like Bryn Terfel, who was here earlier in the summer, or people like Anne-Sophie von Otter, these are people who really inspire me. Their bodies are their instrument. And it is so beautiful how they can create such resonance. So that's what I'm really, really interested in. I want to train to be a teacher of Alexander Technique so that I can help flute students, music students in the future. That is something that's very, very dear to my heart. And when I think of my own training, you know, I studied with one of the greatest flute players on the planet who's sadly passed away now, William Bennett, great, great, great teacher, wonderful inspiration, one of my favorite musicians on any instrument. And I put my Alexander lessons on an equal footing with my flute lessons, so that gives you a sense of how much respect and reverence I have for the technique and for how much it's impacted me and helped me.
Brian McCreath It is something that I hear from people when they've studied Alexander Technique, when they've really incorporated it, it becomes central to what being a musician is to them because, you put it well, your body becomes your instrument and the instrument that you're holding, whatever instrument it is, whether it's the flute or violin or anything, it's the relationship of your body to that instrument that becomes more seamless and more fluid.
Lorna McGhee Yes, and it's not just from a technical point of view, it's just from the point of refining your coordination so that your technique is better. To me, the purpose of it is to allow you to kind of reach your artistic potential. Somebody once put it, the only reason to practice technique is so the body doesn't get in the way of the soul expressing itself. So really this is why I practice this Alexander Technique, and it informs all my own flute practice. And then my performing on stage, you know, it might be very tempting to sort of hurl yourself at a big flute solo like Brahms [Symphony No.] 1, but knowing that if you just kind of balance your body beautifully, get your breathing working, so that you're like a blank slate really, that this sound can resonate and ring to the greatest potential. You know, if you were to tap a crystal glass and it rings beautifully, if you fill that glass with sand and tap it again, it goes clunk. Unnecessary effort is like putting sand in the glass. So all the practice I do is just trying to be like that clear crystal glass that can ring, so nothing gets in the way of the expression. That's the aspiration. That's what I'm always working towards. And that's a really enjoyable, fruitful, really interesting place to be.
Brian McCreath And now, all of that is being put in the service of the Boston Symphony at large, but especially in this wind section. I want you to describe the particular personality of the players you're immediately surrounded by in the oboe, flute, clarinet, bassoon sections.
Lorna McGhee I feel so privileged and lucky to play in this wind section, and I just love it. I mean, really, it's such an absolute joy to listen to my colleagues and then, you know, we respond to each other and there's so many ways I can answer that question, there's so many wonderful things. First of all, the commitment from everyone to the beauty of sound is just exceptional. And there's a particular kind of sonority here that I would say is rich and full, full of overtones. Marcel Moyse would talk about the sound having all the multivitamins. Like it's got this depth. There's a depth of sound and incredible resonance. Nothing is ever forced or pushed and you sort of release the sound. And part of that is also just enjoying the beautiful hall that we have in Symphony Hall, that invites that way of playing. But it's also the individuals have this aesthetic of that incredible beauty and richness and depth and full complement of overtones in the sound. It's not thin sounds that might just have the upper partial, it's the whole kit and caboodle. [laughs]
So the sound, and then also this beautiful chamber music feeling. There's a commitment to always saying something when you play, so that you're always expressing something. It's never just executed. It's always saying something. And the beautiful inflection that people speak with when they play. It's like, what is an up or what is a down bow? It's not just point and shoot. It's not just great instrumental playing. It's really speaking. So that's another aspect to it. Then we can keep going. There's also the chamber music skills of voicing. So when somebody has something important to say, you give them space. You give them room to say that. It's not each man for himself. There's this beautiful instinctive, okay, so it's your solo. With solo winds, there can be a lot of stardom or wanting the limelight or whatever, but here it's just this grace. I think that's the best word for it. It's grace and dignity and kindness and empathy. And also the leading and following. There's the chamber music, and there's the blend, and there is the commitment to intonation. And we're always trying to get it right. Nobody just says, no, I'm right. You have to come with me. It's just the best. [laughs]
Brian McCreath I love that. I love that.
Lorna McGhee And so collaborative. And I also love people who can really put out the solos with great flair and virtuosity and that kind of skill. And then also the skill to just be supportive and, "okay, no, my voice is secondary here. You have the leading voice." That voicing thing I was talking about. And then, also, just the depth of skill all the way through the section. Incredible, incredible second players. Beautiful English horn, beautiful piccolo, contrabassoon, bass clarinet, E-flat clarinet. It's just across the board, it's dynamite.
Brian McCreath The summer of 2025 was Lorna McGhee’s first season at Tanglewood, where the Boston Symphony performs every weekend over the course of eight weeks. And she described for me what the experience was like to be in the Berkshires of Western Massachusetts, playing concerts at the Koussevitzky Music Shed.
Lorna McGhee I love nature actually. It's so nice to be sitting on stage and looking out at the trees when you're about to play a solo. It's quite calming. I mean, of course, it's a lot of repertoire in rapid succession, but it's beautiful. I have to say it's such an idealistic bubble here that I feel very lucky that we get to do this. And I think it's such a lovely atmosphere for the audience as well to come here and be relaxed and to sit out on the lawn or come into the Shed. But just the whole environment is uplifting, isn't it? I mean, it's a lot of work, but I feel really inspired by this. And it's nice to have the interaction with [the Tanglewood Music Center] Fellows as well. That's a lovely aspect to it.
Brian McCreath The students of the Tanglewood Music Center, yeah. What work have you done with them this summer?
Lorna McGhee Yeah, well, I've done three masterclasses and some private lessons with them and also a masterclass for the Boston University Tanglewood Institute, for the high schoolers as well. I did a class and some private lessons for them and some chamber music coaching. So I feel like this beautiful campus, this Tanglewood campus is just such a beautiful sort of shrine to classical music. I mean, that sounds a bit gushy, but in this day and age, it gives me hope, just to know that all these other things are going on, the composition workshops, the conducting workshops, the vocal workshops. It's actually beautiful to be able to come and be invigorated in this space.
Brian McCreath Had you been here before?
Lorna McGhee Never.
Brian McCreath Wow. Wonderful, wonderful. Lorna, I feel like everything we've talked about, we could talk about for hours. This is so interesting to talk with you about where you're coming from and how you approach your instrument and your life and your art. It's really wonderful. So I hope we'll talk more, but for now we'll leave it there. So thank you, thank you so much.
Lorna McGhee My pleasure, thanks for having me.
[MUSIC: Debussy – Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun]
Brian McCreath With audio engineering support from Téa Mottolese, I’m Brian McCreath.