Saturday, April 18, 2026
8:00 PM
Dutch duo-pianists Lucas and Arthur Jussen perform a BSO-commissioned piece written for them by American composer and Grawemeyer Award-winner Andrew Norman. Finnish conductor Susanna Mälkki also leads the BSO in Rachmaninoff’s Symphonic Dances and Ravel’s beloved Mother Goose suite.
Susanna Mälkki, conductor
Lucas and Arthur Jussen, pianos
Maurice RAVEL Mother Goose Suite
Andrew NORMAN Split, for two pianos and orchestra (world premiere; BSO co-commission)
Sergei RACHMANINOFF Symphonic Dances, Op. 45
Learn more about the Boston Symphony Orchestra's 2025-2026 season on their site.
In a preview of the program, Susanna Mälkki describes the character and challenge of Andrew Norman's Split, why Rachmaninoff's Symphonic Dances is one of her favorite pieces, and what she looks for in building effective artistic relationships with orchestras.
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT (lightly edited for clarity):
Brian McCreath I'm Brian McCreath at Symphony Hall with Susanna Mälkki, who's back with the Boston Symphony for a beautiful program, but a fascinating one, too. So, Ms. Mälkki, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.
Susanna Mälkki Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here again.
Brian McCreath I want to ask you about the complete program, but I'm especially interested in Split, by Andrew Norman, so we'll talk about that. But tell me first, how did the program come together? Where was the conversation when you began talking to the BSO? So, what was the first thing that you came to as part of this program?
Susanna Mälkki I think the Norman piece was in the program, and I was, of course, very happy about it because I know Andrew from Los Angeles, and we've met here and there over the years. So, I was very excited about this, and it's a big honor to do a premiere by him. And it may have been me who suggested the Rachmaninoff because it's one of my absolute favorites. We also thought that it's nice to package the modern premiere with grand classics. You know, that always makes a good package
Brian McCreath And there's never a bad time to do Ravel with the BSO.
Susanna Mälkki Oh, exactly, exactly. I mean, what a jewel of a piece.
Brian McCreath There are few conductors I can think of who would be better equipped to do any world premiere. Your experience doing new works is just unbelievably extensive, and that's why I want to ask you if you can help by, for those who don't know Andrew Norman's work, how do you place it within the context of modern composers in terms of its challenges or in terms its artistic voice? Is there any kind of context that you can use, for you personally, to sort of say what it is about Andrew's voice musically that attracts you.
Susanna Mälkki I think it has a lot of energy, virtuosity, almost like an acrobatic virtuosity, which is of course fun for the players, for musicians on this level, you know, it's really a positive challenge. And I think his music is really representative of the speed of our time. There's a cartoon film kind of feeling about some places which are just kind of thrown on top of each other and sort of relentless, but in a fun way. The writing, I wouldn't call it like the extreme hardcore avant-garde, but he's clearly informed and knowledgeable about all of that. But the extended techniques, for example, it's mild, it's really more about the virtuosity and the combination of things. And also, what has to be said is that his ability to orchestrate, to write for a big orchestra, is extraordinary, because there is so much material in this piece and people are playing at the same time very often, and it still has this incredible light and shine about it. It's really remarkable.
Brian McCreath I love what you said though about Andrew's musical voice reflecting the speed of our time. So, I want to try out a theory with you, or a model maybe, and see what your reaction is. As I listen to you rehearse this, I'm thinking about the theme of this that Andrew has written about, that this piece is about attention and distraction and the speed of information and stimulus that comes to us in our modern day. And for some reason, what occurred to me, not because of the sound of the music, but the theme of the music, is Beethoven [Symphony No.] 6, which in his time was a way of experiencing the world, and he wrote about that. And this is something that Andrew is doing in this piece, that isn't a walk outside, but it is a way that people experience the world now. And I just want to just test that on you and see what your reaction to that idea might be.
Susanna Mälkki Sure, it's a very interesting topic altogether. I mean, how do we feel? Maybe we become aware of the craziness of our time when we hear pieces like this. But I think we also enjoy speed. I think, we couldn't live without the possibility of speed anymore. But yeah, it is very fundamental and interesting philosophical question of our time and there is of course the question of where will it end up if we're just frantically going back and forth. And it was interesting also, I don't know if you heard that part of the rehearsal, but we agreed that actually the speed that he had originally thought, in terms of tempo, the metronome marking, is actually not necessary. We don't need to push it that far because the impression of the speed is still, you know, speed of light or the velocity of it. And this often happens actually in music making, that you bring out more virtuosity when you take a little bit more time to just really taste every single little detail, and really nail those notes. And in a beautiful big hall like this one, you will also need to adapt to the resonance of the hall. So, speed is relative. The perception of speed is not always equivalent to the actual speed, and he plays with that very, very cleverly.
Brian McCreath I love this, though, that this must be something you experience commonly because you do so many world premieres, and you have done over the decades, that you are in the moment of a first rehearsal, and you see the potential of doing something maybe a little different from what the composer had noted in their score, and you work with the composer, and you come to a different solution from what they had initially imagined. Is that something that commonly happens?
Susanna Mälkki I think world premieres are always a little bit workshop-like in the sense that the composer hears the piece for the first time in the first rehearsals, and there are a couple of places where he had an idea of the resonance of things, and then he realized that the notation was actually confusing the musicians. There was too much information, to put it simply. And he's also such an intelligent and experienced composer that he just realizes that it's not the fault of the performers. It's actually the way he wrote it, and then let's just change it. And I love collaborating like this, because it's not right or wrong. We just want to find solutions. And of course, one more great thing about the piece is that it's written in a way where the orchestra hears the difference when it's really absolutely tight and when it's messy. And it's very motivating for everybody. We really want to have those split seconds of something together, and that's where the crazy speed comes back in. And it's like glimpses, exactly like in cartoon movies. And I have the greatest respect for cartoon, you know. Those Hollywood soundtracks of those old... I mean, it's extraordinary. And it's really, really a lot of fun.
Brian McCreath Yeah, those cartoon scores are incredible. The playing on them is incredible.
Susanna Mälkki Also, yes.
Brian McCreath Yeah, right, right. So when you conduct a world premiere like this and you're talking about the complexity and the way that you're managing this first rehearsal of it and everything, and then you go into the Symphonic Dances by Rachmaninoff, as you say, one of your favorite pieces, does this environment kind of automatically give you a different look at Rachmaninoff's score? Or a way of looking through it that maybe you hadn't done before?
Susanna Mälkki That's an interesting question. I think in the orchestration, you know, we have roughly the same amount of players. Surely there's an exuberance in the Rachmaninoff also, especially in the end. I mean, it's just unbelievably shiny and flashy and show-offy in the best possible way. What really moves me in this piece, in the Rachmaninoff, is something that I've understood better with age: the whole Pandora's box of nostalgia and longing for old times. And I think there is this Russian melancholy in it and longing for something that you might not get back. And it has that part, which is maybe present also in the quiet sections in the Norman. But I think this Romantic passion, let's put it that way, in Rachmaninoff is quite extraordinary. I more think about the mirrors of the Ravel and the Rachmaninoff because it's also the kind of lost world colors, and Ravel writes children's books, and then there is this perfect world, and the universe, and the jardin feérique ["Fairy Garden"], and where the puppets are, and this perfection, which is kind of unattainable. And in the same way we have in the Rachmaninoff a world which is not really ours anymore. But there's definitely something very touching about Rachmaninoff. And of course, people debate this a lot because some people think that it's too kind of cheap and cheesy. And I think it's actually really depending on how you perform it.
Brian McCreath Oh really, in what way?
Susanna Mälkki Well, because he's using these jazzy harmonies, and sometimes people are just milking it in a way which might not be what he would have wanted. It's interesting when you listen to his own piano playing, for example. It's very classical. And the whole question of the style of the Russian music... I think this is still very aristocratic music. It's not supposed to be cheesy. If it's cheesy, then it's not done in the right, tasteful manner, in my opinion. But still, we want the goosebumps. So, you know we try to get both worlds.
Brian McCreath I love that. I really love that. Just one more question. Your background is that you were an orchestral cellist. So, you know what it is to be in the ensemble. It's been a little while because you've been a busy, busy conductor for many years now. But you do know that experience. It never leaves you. What, in your experience, is it that an orchestra can do that puts you at ease in that space where you can take musical chances and have fun. What is it that you look for in any orchestra that can do that for you.
Susanna Mälkki That's a very, very beautiful question. I think it's really an invitation to dance in a way, and it should be both ways. I do not believe that it's only depending on what the conductor is doing. I think it's really a give and take. Recently, I've be listening and reading quite a lot of things about theater and acting. And there was an actor, a Finnish actor who said something really beautiful in an interview, and he said that the best thing you can do as an actor is to make your partner look the best possible. The way you interact is always allowing the other one to be at their best. And I think it's a really, really beautiful... I mean, that would be a great rule of thumb for life. But also in music making, it has to be... You take people as they are, and, of course, the specific weird thing about orchestras is that it's like a family or a herd or a team, and it depends, or a village or... It can be so many things, and you have to have a sensitivity to kind of read the inner dynamics of the orchestra as well. And that's where it comes to huge help to having been inside, because you understand that every orchestra is different, and every orchestra is similar as well, because we're people. How people behave in groups and the psychology and everything. It's a very delicate business. And at best, we can all kind of stop being A, B, C, but we just unite in music. I guess that would be the most beautiful outcome.
Brian McCreath That's a beautiful way of saying it, too. That's fantastic. Susanna Mälkki, it's great to have you back in Boston and what a great program to hear you work with this orchestra through. So thank you so much for your time.
Susanna Mälkki Thank you very much.