Saturday, March 7, 2026
8:00 PM
Nonagenarian Swedish conductor Herbert Blomstedt returns to Symphony Hall to lead an All-Brahms program, including two choral masterpieces, Nänie and Schicksalslied (Song of Destiny), sung by the Tanglewood Festival Chorus, and and his Fourth Symphony.
Herbert Blomstedt, conductor
Tanglewood Festival Chorus
Lisa Wong, guest choral conductor
All-BRAHMS program
Schicksalslied, for chorus and orchestra
Nänie, for chorus and orchestra
Symphony No. 4
Learn more about the Boston Symphony Orchestra's 2025-2026 season on their site.
In a conversation with CRB's Brian McCreath, Herbert Blomstedt describes the relevance of the two choral works by Brahms to today's world, the complementary character of the Symphony No. 4, and what's behind his long-time success as a leader of orchestral musicians.
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT (lightly edited for clarity):
Brian McCreath I'm Brian McCreath, and I'm with Herbert Blomstedt, the conductor who has returned once again to the Boston Symphony after many, many performances, but it's great to have you back in Boston, Mr. Blomstedt. Thank you for a little of your time today. I appreciate it.
Herbert Blomstedt Thank you, happy to be here.
Brian McCreath You are in the repertoire that maybe you're most well-known for, this music by Brahms, an all-Brahms program. And I love this combination of pieces, with Nänie and Schicksalslied and the Fourth Symphony. Each of them has a very dark tinge to it, I think, thematically. They're rather bleak in some ways, but tell me about your choices of these pieces and why you feel that they work together on a program.
Herbert Blomstedt Well, these are amazing pieces. Of course, the Fourth Symphony is his last one, close to Opus 100. But the Schicksalslied is a very early piece. He wrote great choral works before he even ventured on his First Symphony. And he shows his mastery of combining the orchestra with the voices wonderfully in this Schicksalslied. And it's also very typical of Brahms. The text is fantastic, and the poetry is incredible. And it is very, I would say, unfortunately, very actual today, because it contrasts two kinds of people. One is the extremely well-to-do people that are already in heaven and walk on the clouds. And he describes it in wonderful terms. And the contrast is the people that live on earth. They have only problems, terrible persecution. And it's almost like a prediction of what's happening in Ukraine today. People are thrown as water to the cliffs from one to another, and it never stops. And they have no hope for the future. And [poet Friedrich] Hölderlin let these two situations contrast to the extreme, Brahms did not accept that. Hölderlin's piece ends in hell, but Brahms' ends in heaven.
Brian McCreath Describe how he does that because Hölderlin, the poet, as you say, ends the poem in a very dark place. But you say that Brahms rejects that. How does he do that with the music to imply his message upon that?
Herbert Blomstedt A very simple trick. Hölderlin's scheme is, first the people up in heaven who are in a wonderful state of luck, and then the people on earth. And just when [Brahms] finished Hölderlin's poem, he adds a coda, when he goes back to the people in heaven, so it ends in the same music. It's like a little repeat section in the music. It really happens only in ten bars. [Sings] And then he's back in the beginning. And ends this the same way as the... It was the same kind of music, but a little different orchestration, wonderful orchestration with a big, big flute solo. It's a very moving work.
Brian McCreath And how do you feel about that message that Brahms is sending? Is he trying to tell us that we here on earth will be in that better place sometime? Or is there some other message you think he's trying to convey to us by going back to that opening music and that more optimistic vision?
Herbert Blomstedt It's a good question. There are times when there's nothing left but hope. That is also the situation today in Ukraine, and starting also now in Iran, the potential of a world crisis. But we have a vision, and hope is not just a careless optimism, hope is founded on the real possibility. The future has many turns, and most of them today are bad, going to the worst. But there are also possibilities of a good turn. And history has shown that, that very difficult times often end in possibility to a beautiful reverse of the luck of the earth. Music can convey that in a very wonderful way, not by arguing philosophically, but just to state the fact: "remember that we had some wonderful things in the beginning of the piece." They were longing for luck and peace.
Brahms is not a philosopher, but he's a very clever guy. Basically, he was a happy man, but he has a dark side also. And many Brahms lovers don't even notice that. They just are happy because of the music. Also in his most happy pieces, for instance, like the Second Symphony, the symphony of joy and triumph, right in the beginning, he makes his sounds of minor chords, with trombones and timpani that are a moment in the dark. It's over in one second, but it's there, typical of Brahms. Brahms said of himself, I am the most melancholic person on earth. And his music is very melancholic. But we don't associate that with tragedy. [Moans] "Oh, do we really have to live?" It's very positive.
Brian McCreath Of course. I'm so interested that you have Schicksalslied first on this program, and then you go to Nänie, which has the text anyway, as I read it, portrays the misfortunes of the gods. And so, I wonder if that was a little bit behind what you're thinking about, that you end Schicksalslied in this moment of hope, as you say, but then we go into a piece that takes those elevated people from Schicksalslied and actually. Subjects them to some tragedy. Is that a little bit behind you or am I reading too much into that?
Herbert Blomstedt No, it goes in that. Nänie is a late piece, just a little time before he wrote the Fourth Symphony, and it has one of the most beautiful oboe solos in the whole literature. Before the text starting to be sung by the chorus, the oboe sings his heart out. It is quite a long thing comparable to the oboe solo in the Violin Concerto [by Brahms]. The second movement starts with a long oboe solo, not with a violin solo. It's a violin concerto, and many violinists like to think that way, think why does he give the most wonderful melody in the violin concerto to the oboe and not to the violin? Of course, the violin picks it up, but Brahms as a melodic creator is unbelievable. And we who play this music so often just marvel at the possibilities it has. Brahms continues to mesmerize us. The mixture of positive and a little dark shade here. That is life. Life is not only happy. That would be very boring for artists. We are all in a happy state of living sometimes, and we wish it would never stop. But it's like, to have some sun every day is not so good. We need change.
Brian McCreath Well, speaking of dark, your choice for the second half, you had four symphonies to choose from if you want to stick with an all-Brahms program. Tell me about the Fourth Symphony and why you feel like that's how you wanted to continue what you had started in the first half through these choral works.
Herbert Blomstedt Well, the Fourth Symphony is, above all, an amazingly strong piece of music, without being loud. That would be horrible to have 45 minutes of that kind of music. Brahms was very critical of his own work. When he finished the symphony and showed it to his friend, he said, he will not like it. It was written in Mürzzuschlag, a little city. In the south of Austria, where he spent the summer this time. And he said, "The cherries don't get sweet here." [laughs] That was the sort of excuse for having some melodies that are a little bit dark. But it's an extremely strong work. And you feel he's a man, an old man, relatively old man. And he starts with a melody that is quite strange. [Sings] All this in a minor key, so there, you know.
Brian McCreath And it doesn't almost feel like a melody, it's just a collection of two note phrases really.
Herbert Blomstedt If you analyze it, it continues on, dropping, so... [sings], and so on. So, on the surface, there's more construction than the melodic find, you know? And Brahms critics - he had many... The whole group of musicians around Wagner were critical opponents of Brahms. And one of the most intelligent of his critics was Hugo Wolf, a wonderful composer in the steps of Wagner. And he put a text to that one, “Erhat wieder keine Idee gehabt.” He has lost any inspiration, so he just constructs music like mathematics. Of course, who are completely wrong in that. But on the surface, one can understand him. Wagner had wonderful melodies. Brahms certainly could also write wonderful melodies. Look at the oboe solos here. But he also had a mind that controlled all, to discover the emotions behind the notes, you know, he was a master of that. And I think the Fourth Symphony is a masterwork in that. It's enormously strong. That does not mean that it's loud. Don't misunderstand me. Loud music is not strong. Loud music that is full of contents and feelings, different feelings. For instance, there is the melody in the second movement. [Sings] It's a wonderful melody, and you notice that he goes step-by-step [sings] like walking. It's full of wonderful melodies. And the Fourth Symphony is perhaps most well-known for its finale, where he goes back to Bach. He never did that so expressively as in this symphony. The theme of the last moment is not by Brahms, it's by Bach. [Sings] Rising step by step. Brahms was a great admirer of Bach.
Brian McCreath And that melody is from one of the cantatas. Is it the cantata 150?
Herbert Blomstedt Yes, it's one of the late cantatas, and Brahms used this as a theme for a set of variations. But it's much more than 32 variations of a theme by Bach, which it doesn't say. The music does not say, "This is a quote from Bach."
Brian McCreath And not even one of Bach's more well-known pieces, so you really, really have to know.
Herbert Blomstedt Yes, and you really know it when you hear this movement. It's only eight bars, but still the whole piece is a variation of these eight bars. And he does it with so much variation, you have unbelievable possibilities in this theme. Lots of strong developments. It's a marvel to study and to listen to it. It's a joy.
Brian McCreath You mentioned, when we were talking about the choral works, the role of hope in how we come away from those. Do you find hope in the Fourth Symphony as well?
Herbert Blomstedt Oh, yes. The second movement, of course, the slow movement, is full of songs, easily identifying songs. And of course, the last movement is just triumph. There's an unbelievable strength behind this music. The Scherzo that is before that is the shortest movement. And I have no hesitation to quote a saying by one of the great musicians of Brahms' own century: "This is the strongest Beethoven scherzo after Beethoven." Beethoven was known for creating the work of the scherzo, which started as a variation of the minuetto, very pleasant, nice, music full of nice minuettos by Haydn, by Schubert, by Mozart, but also by Brahms. Here it is turned into a diabolic version, fast tempos, but the same three-four rhythm. It's an absolutely fascinating piece, some six minutes long only. And that after a second movement that is perhaps a quarter of an hour, and the finale then also very large. So he knows how to combine many words and few words with lots of power. I love this symphony, everybody loves it, but it is ideal music for the Boston Symphony.
Brian McCreath Well, I want to ask you, though, you have this beautiful relationship with the BSO. You can tell when you come on stage and after performances, when you shake hands, the musicians love to be with you. But other orchestras have also really, really loved your leadership, including San Francisco, the San Francisco Symphony, the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra. Maybe Staatskapelle Dresden? You were the leader of that orchestra at one time, I think? Tell me what it is that you look for or how you cultivate a productive relationship with musicians that gets the best out of them and also leaves you all in a space of feeling that you've elevated each other.
Herbert Blomstedt Well, it's not the result of a plan. OK. I just have the courage to be the way I am. And I'm not the kind of musician that everybody says, "Oh, that's interesting." I am not a showman. Like, Bernstein was a fantastic showman. I am not a very colorful personality. I am really more of a scientist, a musical scientist. My real realm is the study of scores and the study of the music history. But I had good luck in working with the orchestra because I think I have a great respect for the orchestras, or for any orchestra, any other musician, not just the great, the most famous ones. I have great respect of every musician. For me they are like messengers of another world. They help to create the music that people adore and that enriches their lives. Most conductors make great headlines when they are 17 or 18, and the next year they conduct a Vienna Philharmonic. That makes headlines and so on. That doesn't happen with me. I conducted the Vienna Philharmonic for the first time when I was 80 years old. Lots of experience there. And I am slow in my developments, but I do it my own way. And when you do it with respect to every musician, they get your cooperation. They are happy to work with you.
Brian McCreath That's wonderful. That's really wonderful. You've been so generous with your time, Mr. Blomstedt. I can't tell you how lovely it is to talk with you and hear your thoughts and all your stories. It's really, wonderful. Thank you so much. I'm so happy you're back in Boston and I think the musicians of the BSO are as well. So thanks again for your time today.
Herbert Blomstedt My pleasure. Thank you.