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Bach's B Minor Mass, with Suzuki and H+H

Conductor Masaaki Suzuki, standing outside in front of a church entrance in a dark coat.
Marco Borggreve
Masaaki Suzuki, conductor

Sunday, September 22, 2024
7:00 PM

On WCRB In Concert with the Handel and Haydn Society, frequent guest conductor Masaaki Suzuki returns to Symphony Hall to lead five soloists and the H+H Orchestra and Chorus in Bach's choral masterpiece, performed with period instruments.

Masaaki Suzuki, conductor
Hana Blažíková, soprano
Olivia Vermeulen, mezzo-soprano
Tim Mead, countertenor
Shimon Yoshida, tenor
Timothy Edlin, bass-baritone
Handel and Haydn Society Orchestra and Chorus

J.S. BACH Mass in B Minor

This concert was recorded on April 7, 2024 at Symphony Hall.

Read program notes for this concert

Learn more about the Handel and Haydn Society

Alan McLellan spoke with Masaaki Suzuki about his history with the B Minor Mass as well as its legacy as Bach's final work. Listen with the audio player below and read the transcript below.

IC interview - Masaaki Suzuki - September 22, 2024

TRANSCRIPT (edited lightly for clarity):

Alan McLellan I'm Alan McLellan and this is WCRB In Concert with the Handel and Haydn Society. Our guest conductor for this performance of Bach's B Minor Mass is Masaaki Suzuki, and he's with me now. Welcome.

Masaaki Suzuki Thank you very much.

Alan McLellan I'm most interested in your personal experience with this piece.

Masaaki Suzuki Ah! [Suzuki chuckles]

Alan McLellan Yeah. [McLellan chuckles] Can you talk about the impression it made on you?

Masaaki Suzuki Yeah. Well actually, this piece, the B Minor Mass, was one of my first encounters with Bach himself. When I was maybe 10 or 11 years old, my father gave me the LP record of the Karl Richter's [recording] of this piece. And that was [such a] shocking experience for me. And well, nearly every night I listened to this recording. At that time I played the trumpet in the brass band, so, you know, especially for the trumpet part, for the solo—

Alan McLellan Yes! Oh yes.

Masaaki Suzuki It was so fascinating, I couldn't stop listening! Yeah, but later on— Well, I can tell you a very interesting story because we have performed the B Minor Mass with my own group at the Ansbach Bach festival, and I told this story for the newspaper interview: after the concert, one lady came to me [and said], "I am the wife of Adolf Scherbaum, who was the first trumpeter which I repeatedly listened to! That is a really, really wonderful memory. And so this piece is really, really unforgettable for me.

Alan McLellan So how have your feelings changed about the piece?

Masaaki Suzuki Well, I don't notice any change at all because my memory with the Karl Richter recording is still here. And also, I have performed this piece many, many times, but— Every time, of course, it's somewhat different, but, you know, still it stays all the time so fresh and so, so energetic. And that gives me so, so much consolation and also a lot of energy, so I'm really happy. I'm really happy with it now, all the time.

Alan McLellan And is it a challenge to communicate that enthusiasm and that engagement with the piece to a new ensemble?

Masaaki Suzuki Well, actually, this time, Handel and Haydn Society and I have worked together before in the past, and it is no problem at all to communicate. But we have never done this piece together. So that's why some ideas I must share with them—and they should have certainly performed this many times—but today they will have a conductor with a different idea. And so it is a really exciting week.

Alan McLellan Yeah, I know that not that much is known about Bach's experience with this piece, but do you have a sense of why he composed it?

Masaaki Suzuki Well, [Suzuki chuckles] we don't know why he has composed it. Usually, almost all the vocal works of his were composed for a specific aim, a specific purpose for the service or any kind of special occasion and so on. But for this piece, you know, we don't know why he has composed it and whether he was commissioned by someone else or not. There is no, no evidence at all. And also, we don't have any evidence whether he had ever performed this piece in public. The only thing is that the first two parts, the Kyrie and Gloria, were composed in 1733, [and] those very beautifully written parts are dedicated to the Dresden [court]. He suddenly wanted some kind of title of the "court composer," and he got it. He got that title some three years later, I think. And but there is no evidence at all that was performed ever in Dresden. So these parts, written by Bach himself, were beautifully preserved until now and never used actually, [Suzuki laughs] ironically. But that's why it must have been very, very important for him, of course.

But the rest of the Mass, you know, the Credo until the end of the Mass, were never performed probably. And this is the only Mass, so-called "Missa tota" (so that's the entire Mass) which he has composed. So actually for the Lutheran church, he didn't have any reason to compose this kind of entire mass. So the Kyrie and Gloria are the common things, but the rest were not usually done.

Alan McLellan So do you think it was kind of a personal statement?

Masaaki Suzuki Yeah, I think so, that it was a very strong personal reason. Because he has culled so many things from his earlier works, and he has put together— Like, for example, the Qui tollis [peccata mundi, in the Gloria] that was from one of the cantatas [from] earlier times, and the many things he has parodied. Well, to use the right term, because "parody" is not the right word in this case, he has shortened his work, so—

Alan McLellan Right, he's quoting himself.

Masaaki Suzuki "Quoting himself," yeah exactly. So probably, he has made this work as a kind of memory from the earlier times, or he has probably wanted to make some kind of achievement, you know, towards the end of his life. But he didn't know [Suzuki chuckles] when his life would end, of course! So that's why, in my words, actually, that is certainly God's will.

Alan McLellan God's will, yes. So he was making a statement. And it's a mystery why it happened at that time.

Masaaki Suzuki Exactly, yeah.

Alan McLellan But I think he had lived a significant number of years and he felt, perhaps, that he wanted to make a statement of faith in the case of the Credo, right?

Masaaki Suzuki Yeah, yeah. Well, actually, from his side, probably... This is my only my guess, but he has started a quite gigantic project of the harpsichord works from around 1730s. And that was actually Clavier-Übung part I, II, III, IV. Those are the six partitas, the Italian Concerto, and the [Ouvertüre nach Französischer Art]. And then comes the organ Mass and then comes the Goldberg Variations. And those things are one line of which he wanted to achieve, the kind of series of harpsichord works. And on the other hand, he had also some desire probably to transform the German cantatas which were composed for the Lutheran Mass [to be] a tiny bit more public or more universal. So that's why he had transformed a couple of cantatas, German cantatas, into a Latin Mass, a shorter Mass, which was also possible to use for Lutheran Mass, but not only for the Lutheran Church. The Latin word at that time was a common language for any kind of denomination. So I think one of his desires is this line of vocal works, to make it a little more universal.

And at the same time, he had started to make other harpsichord works where he tried a lot of experiments on the polyphonic writing. All these things are also his desire to compile those works, and these two different lines came together on this music, the B Minor Mass. So the B Minor Mass has vocal work that has amazingly complicated polyphony, that which never happened before in any cantatas. That much complicated writing never happened. So this is a kind of reflection from the way of "Die Kunst der Fuge" or The Art of the Fugue, like polyphonic writings at the same time that the vocal works. So the vocal work and the harpsichord works came together. So this is a really interesting integration and that's happened to be the very last piece of his life.

Alan McLellan Yeah. The brilliant [way] that he would kind of be thinking in terms of that kind of coming together, as you're saying, and that being the kind of magnum opus.

Masaaki Suzuki Yeah, exactly.

Alan McLellan So what challenges does it pose for a conductor?

Masaaki Suzuki Well, actually, it is nearly impossible to pursue all the polyphonic lines. For example, the Credo, that seems like a five-voices choir. But the two violins and continuo, in total eight voice polyphony going on, that never stops. They just keep going. There is no other works [with] this kind of polyphony. For example, there are a couple of motets which has eight voices, but basically that is two choirs. But in this case, it's just simple one choir plus instrumental lines. So two in total, eight voices going together, all the time. So it is nearly impossible for the conductor to follow the old line. That's makes you crazy! [Suzuki and McLellan laugh] That's really a challenge. So I can never, never succeed to follow everything. Yeah. So every time, we're fresh and always stimulated by whole thing.

Alan McLellan You say you are stimulated by it.

Masaaki Suzuki Stimulated by the this kind of complicated structure. So yeah.

Alan McLellan Right. So compared to how you felt about this piece when you first heard it as a child, [Suzuki chuckles] compared to how you feel about it now, what is the difference?

Masaaki Suzuki Oh, that time when I was a kid, it was completely impossible to understand what's going on. You know, I listened probably like, "That's a very big choir with Karl Richter, and also the wonderful trumpet playing!" [Suzuki laughs] And so on and so on. But that was so impressive. So I can never forget it.

Alan McLellan And now it's...?

Masaaki Suzuki Now it's... Yeah, I'm trying to figure out all the details one at a time. [Suzuki laughs] But the funny thing is that I'm conducting choir and orchestra, but my feeling is just like, "I'm playing of The Art of Fugue, and so there's so many details, you know, which you can never miss! But still, it is so difficult to follow.

Alan McLellan Yeah, a huge work of great complexity.

Masaaki Suzuki I think so, yes. Yeah.

Alan McLellan Masaaki Suzuki. Thank you again.

Masaaki Suzuki Thank you very much.